Healing Chronic Lyme In Community with Josh & Joe, The Healing Dudes, 147

00:00:00 Chazmith: Welcome to Our Power Is Within podcast. I'm your host, Chazmith, and my mission for this podcast is to inspire you to take your power back and to realize that you are the healer that you've been looking for all along. We are all capable of healing in mind, in body and in soul. 

00:00:27 Chazmith:  Today's episode is brought to you by Jeannie Kulwin Coaching. In case you're unfamiliar with Jeannie, let me introduce you. Jeannie is a Stress and Mind-Body Coach in LA who has appeared on this show twice now. Her work involves not only a specialized focus on mind, body and TMS healing, but also helping clients transform important aspects of life that feel stuck or overwhelming, such as career, relationships, weight issues, confidence, purpose, life stressors, you name it. You'll find her to be a compassionate, action oriented, and results driven, all the things you need in a coach to create meaningful change. Her holistic approach will help you make the changes that are important to you, and you'll walk away feeling empowered to continue to create the life that you want.        

00:01:13 Chazmith: One of the many things that makes Jeannie a terrific coach is that she's actually been in the trenches with her own health challenges, completely overcoming fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, amongst many other symptoms that left her physically and mentally depleted. Simply put, she gets it. After healing herself completely, Jeannie's now laser focused on delivering fast results to her clients through her one on one coaching program, which includes weekly support, consistency, and accountability. Book a free 45 minute call to learn about her one to one coaching program so that you can fast track your results too. Go to jeanniekulwin.com. That's J-E-A-N-N-I-E-K-U-L-W-I-N.com, and you can book your free call today. Links will be in the show notes. 

00:01:59 Chazmith: So today we have a twofer. What do I mean by twofer? I mean we have two guests for the price of one. Just kidding. No, seriously though, we do have two guests today. We're actually going to be welcoming Joe and Josh to the show. They are the co-founders of The Healing Dudes, which you may have now seen pop up in your social feed. By now, Joe and Josh are on their own healing journeys, and together they have created a 30 day boot camp program to help us really dive deep into developing some powerful habits that will support self healing that you can then sustain for far beyond the 30 days. Today, we dive into their personal stories and how they came together to create The Healing Dudes.   

00:02:42 Chazmith: The great part about their boot camp is a new one starts every 30 days, so if you miss one month, there's always another. Joe and Josh have been so generous, and they are offering one of my lucky listeners one free month access to their boot camp. Plus, they're offering a discount code for 10% off, which will be in the show notes. There's a couple of ways to enter to win the free month, and these are by creating an IG story tagging both The Healing Dudes and Our Power Is Within to let us know that you want to win. Another way is to sign up for my future podcast newsletter on my website@ourpoweriswithin.com, or you can leave a five star review on Apple podcast. If you do leave the review, please leave me a message and let me know what your Apple ID was so that I have a way to actually connect with you if you do win. We're going to run this for two weeks, so that means that this will be from today, which is August 1 through August 14, and I will reveal the winner on Instagram August 15. So if you do sign up to win, make sure you follow me on Instagram. Okay, so I'm ready to jump in and do this deep dive with Josh and Joe. So let's welcome them to the show, and please enjoy. 

00:04:06 Chazmith: All right, so I have Josh and Joe from the Healing Dudes with me today, and I welcome you both. Thank you for being here. 

00:04:13 Josh: It's our pleasure. 

00:04:14 Joe: Thanks for having us. 

00:04:14 Chazmith: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So generally when I am interviewing someone, I really like to kind of start out by opening the floor for you guys to talk a little bit about yourself, share briefly a little bit about your own healing journey and your background with chronic illness and just kind of what brought you to where you are today. So I thought we could start there, and then maybe one of you can also jump in and share how you ended up meeting and what brought you two together to collaborate. 

00:04:44 Josh: Sounds good. You want to kick it off, Joe? 

00:04:46 Joe: Yeah, for sure. So both Josh and I have very similar stories. We've actually known each other for quite some time, but both of our journeys are very similar, whereas we've been sick for, you know, both over 15 years. I got chronically ill starting in about 2005 when I started getting sick when I was 21 years old. Was in college at the time, had no idea what was going on. Was just trying to pretend like I was fine, normal, healthy, and that did not last for very long. Had to drop out of school. It took me almost a year to get diagnosed with Lyme disease. I think a lot of people with chronic Lyme, their story is very similar. Undiagnosed, misdiagnosed, go from doctor to doctor. So I went through all of that sort of stuff, tons of neurological, cognitive, physical, all the things you get from there.        

00:05:35 Joe: I was finally diagnosed, but then I spent about four or five years just trying all sorts of different healing modalities to try to get better. And some of them worked a little bit, but most of them honestly just made me sicker. And I was waiting around to get better for about four or five years. That never really fully happened. And then that's when I really started getting into what Josh and I are teaching a lot of people right now. Mind-body healing techniques, tactics, tools. And I was able to pretty much heal myself or get myself into remission for about five years. Then went back to some unhealthy lifestyle behaviors and things like that. Went back to working a career… a stressful career, relationship stress, physical stress, putting unhealthy things in my body and relapsed again in 2015. Healed myself again using the same modalities. 

00:06:33 Joe: Ended up writing a book about it. It took me about three or four years. Published the book in 2020. Again was back in the grind of work life living. Went back to again detrimental lifestyle behaviors, was slowly getting sicker again. I'll go more into detail after this. I'm just trying to do it in a short version. End of 2021, I got COVID and completely crashed my immune system relapsed. All of my symptoms came back, all the neurological physical before I was kind of existing half well, half sick at this point. I then completely relapsed fully and had to quit my job.     

00:07:16 Joe: And then this is know the story of Josh and I reconnecting kind of plays into that, but I won't go too much into that until Josh tells his story. But after I quit my job, I moved down to Florida and then again the Healing Dudes started. And this was an opportunity for me to heal myself again. But now do it on a stage where people are seeing the healing journey and what. I used to heal myself twice before, but now I'm doing it and sharing it with sort of with a group of people.  When we started all of the Healing Dudes and the healing boot camps that we have, that's my short story. I didn't want to go too long into it because it can go. Like I could spend literally an hour but yeah.

00:08:01 Chazmith: Yeah, they're complex, right? They're all complex.

00:08:03 Joe: They're complex. But I met Josh on like, I think it was like Facebook, like probably around 2007, 2008. We kind of kept in touch. We met in person like two times before, but we maintained a casual friendship where we chat here and there prior to me moving down to Florida and us starting this. 

00:08:24 Chazmith: That's awesome. 

00:08:25 Joe: Yeah.    

00:08:25 Josh: So with me, like Joe said, we met in 2006, 2007, like right around when Facebook first started to come and people in the chronic illness community were getting off of forums and getting on to the beginning of social media. That's how long we've been sick. But I got sick in 2006. I worked in DC for the federal government, had gotten a tick bite, typical out of season flu in the middle of the summer. And I was only 26. Had no idea what was happening to me. Was sick for about two weeks and then just magically I got better and went back on through life. Took a job as a consultant in Raleigh, North Carolina, and it all went downhill in one day. I remember being in my office and feeling like the world was closing in. Couldn't breathe, put my feet on my desk in my office, and pushed myself out and told someone in the hall, hey, I'm dying.   

00:09:14 Josh: What I didn't know is I was having my first panic attack. So they pulled me out on a gurney. So I'm getting pulled out of work on a stretcher, completely weird as a 26 year old dude in his office. And I remember waking up in the hospital and just not feeling right. So I was experiencing what we now know as DPDR derealization depersonalization. And from that moment back in 2006 now to 2023, I have had varying degrees of that throughout I mean, severity to where I can't drive, can't do anything. But took this is an abbreviated version. I was down in North Carolina. I had to move back up to DC. Because I couldn't work.      

00:09:54 Josh: After that happened, I was constantly anxious. My heart was racing, and all over the place was having trouble breathing, memory, confusion. And I went from being a thriving 26 year old, playing in men's basketball leagues, running every day, going out, drinking, living life, eating pizza, doing all these normal people things, to now I couldn't get out of bed. And I was in such a state of panic because I didn't know what was going on with me that I was not leaving the house. All these doctors were telling me, “Oh, your blood works fine.        

00:10:23 Josh: You know the typical Lyme story. Everything's coming back fine. You're just overworked. You're anxious. Okay?”     

00:10:30 Josh: So went from John Hopkins to the Mayo Clinic to all these different doctors, and they all said, everything's fine. So the last doctor that I had wrote down on a piece of paper, you are healthy. And he told me anytime that I was sick to look at this. And that was supposed to magically make me feel better. I had no idea. But it ultimately gotten to a point where I became completely agoraphobic, and I couldn't leave the house. I couldn't get mail. If someone knocked on the door, I would run to the basement. I was having all these crazy things going on with me, and I'm a very, very social person, and I didn't understand why. So I got on Facebook, and I joined group, and I had a really good friend say, have you been tested for Lyme disease?       

00:11:09 Josh: I was like, yeah, I was. But test came back negative. Like, this is probably just anxiety. She's like, no, go get tested again. You live in an endemic area.   So sure enough, I did, and I went and found a Lyme literate doctor, and labs came back like a Christmas tree, and it lit up. And I had Lyme disease. During this time, I'm in the process of losing my house, losing my cars, losing everything that I'd worked so hard for. Because I couldn't work. And it was that bad. It wasn't like I was being lazy or anything. I physically just could not get off the couch. I was that exhausted and that anxious and ended up moving into my wife's mom's basement. And then there was mold, and then it just started to spiral from down there. And I went from Lyme doctor to Lyme doctor to Lyme doctor, IV antibiotics, hyperbaric oxygen, B venom therapy, I mean, you name it.        

00:11:52 Josh: I threw hundreds of thousands of dollars at treatment over the period of 17 years and just never had gotten better and had some incredible viral events that happened. That's a whole nother story in and of itself, but got so frustrated with Lyme disease and was a huge advocate in the community. And I had a close friend to me die. We don't know if it was because of the pick line or if it was Lyme Cardius, but I ended up taking the battle to Capitol Hill to fight CDC, and IDSA formed the Mayday Project with some other people and was literally protesting at Capitol Hill, protesting in front of the CDC. The IDSA going into their infectious disease conference, like, trying to get legislation passed across, and to date led the largest line protests and ultimately just burnt out.   

00:12:41 Josh: And from there, my health just continued to spiral. And we're probably around 2015, 2016 and just gotten to the point where I was just accepting that I was going to be chronically sick for the rest of my life, that I wasn't going to be able to function as a normal person, that I was never going to be able to go back to work, that the heart palpitations, the brain fog, the joint pain, the confusion. Just the zero quality of life was just going to be with me. And I had four kids, well, I have four now that I had to take care of.    

00:13:13 Josh: So being completely vulnerable, I tried to take my life, and thankfully, that failed. It didn't work. And I related to a lot of people in the community that had at that point because it's a grim existence, and I had no hope. There was no viable treatment for Lyme disease. You go see these Lyme literate doctors and you spend thousands and thousands of dollars, and they tell you you're going to get better.  And unfortunately for many people, they just don't get better. And Joe and I had connected. I'd moved down to Florida, and we were both in that same spot, just really down, like at the bottom of the barrel. And we kept each other alive. We check in on each other a couple of times a day, and we're like, dude, how the hell are we going to get out of this?   

00:13:58 Josh: How are we going to save our lives? And at the time, I was kind know, dabbling in know, DNRs and Gupta and stuff like that, but I couldn't really get a grasp because I was so exhausted and so burnt out that I just didn't have something to pull me out. Like, there was no motivation. So Joe and I was like, let's freaking do it, bro. He was at a bad spot, too. After he'd relapsed, he came down to Florida, and we're like, dude, whatever it takes, we're going to get our life back. And I became a huge supporter of mind-body healing because I'd done a lot of reading. I looked at the science behind it, and what I started to do is I went into the Lyme community because I'd left all the groups because they're incredibly toxic. And I began to talk with people in groups that had gotten better. And what I started to do is keep a graph of what were people doing that got them better.  

00:14:49 Josh: And there was four commonalities. It was always some form of movement, all right, diet, change, facing the limited fears, because what happens is, when we get chronically sick, we hit a wall, and our life stops. We stop living, and then we develop all these fears and phobias and terrible rituals that are counterproductive to our healing. So they change that. They face those. Then, you know, as we kind of found these commonalities, we paired them with neuroplasticity. And Joe and I started meditating twice a day. We started working on neuroplasticity. We began doing yoga. We began walking.  We began practicing gratitude, and we slowly started to see a shift in our health. I went from not leaving the house to now I'm walking in the morning, I'm doing yoga. I was barely driving, and I mean, now I'll drive pretty much anywhere. I have no limitations. I've flown across the country, and literally, in the past six months, my life has changed.       

00:15:42 Josh: Joe got better for a little bit. I don't remember what it was like to be a healthy person. So now that I'm getting my life back and I'm doing things, and Joe and I have created this business to try and help people, but the biggest thing where people fail in neuroplasticity and healing is community. It's really difficult to be able to try and heal by yourself when you've been struck down for so long, when you've had people tell you it's in your head when you have all these different things. So what we've tried to do is cultivate a community of people that are dedicated towards healing. Not half in, half out. No, both feet are in the boat. We are giving this our all. We are so desperate to heal because we don't want to go back to the people that live on the couch all day. We want to thrive and teaching people that even though you're sick, you can still have a full life.        

00:16:26 Josh: And in that, as we regulate the nervous system, things begin to calm down, and our immune system begins to function. Our body begins to function as it should. So anyways, that's kind of a short story. Joe and I met and he came down and literally we would go in the closet every single day and we would meditate, we would write on the wall, the very office that I'm sitting in now is a product of meditation and healing and something that we've created out know, being sick. And now there's this beautiful thing that is Healing Dudes.  And yeah, I'll turn it back over to Joe because I could talk about it forever. 

00:16:56 Joe: Yeah, actually we'll turn it over to you, Chaz.

00:17:00 Chazmith: No,no it's all good. I had some follow up questions just from just curiosity, but you said that you were at one point, basically agoraphobic, but then there was this point where you actually went out and started doing protests and stuff. How did you get yourself out of the house? You were still sick. So how did you get through that mental barrier and get yourself to actually go back out into the world to do these protests and to take these actions? 

00:17:27 Josh: Right, so I was an absolute train wreck when I showed up at these things. So what would happen is I had a safe person, my wife, so I couldn't do anything without her. I became codependent, which is incredibly common in the chronic illness community, is people become codependent on someone. So when I'd lost my friend and we were very close, we talked every day, it literally lit a fire in me that I became so angry that there was no viable treatments, that there was no viable testing that I would get there. And this is why I says I burnt myself out and that's why I had to bow out. But literally, it was just pure adrenaline that would get me there. I couldn't drive there, so my wife would basically be there. She was by my side the whole time.     

00:18:10 Josh: She would be at the events, but I would literally get up, speak, lead that, go back to the hotel and curl up in a ball. I was an absolute mess and everybody there was just like that. Like so many people dealt with that. So I guess the anger of seeing these people pass and get so sick and take their lives was enough to prompt me, like, hey, if no one else is doing anything, if all these other lyme organizations are fighting with each other and getting funding and trying to get celebrities to speak but there's no boots on the ground trying to do anything like nothing's going to change. So my thing was I'm either going to die trying to change something. You know.

00:18:45 Josh: That was the mentality. So.

00:18:14 Chazmith: Yeah.

00:18:49 Josh: That's kind of what spurred me out of the house. [crosstalk]

00:18:50 Chazmith: Yeah, yeah, your adrenaline helping you get out of that freeze state and that fear state, because they say that's anger can be really powerful in that way, but it was probably really counterproductive at the same time to your health, because.

00:19:02 Josh: Oh yeah.

00: 19:04 Chazmith: I mean living that state of adrenaline and going back and forth through those extremes is not healthy for the nervous system at all. 

00:19:12 Josh: Yeah, no, not at all. 

00:19:12 Chazmith: So you guys met through like a Lyme community?   

00:19:14  Joe: Yeah, I think that's where it was. I think it was just probably Facebook, like a support group or something like that. This is a long time ago. 

00:19:25 Josh: During that time, all the lyme people were just kind of spam friendly, requesting each other. 

00:19:28 Joe: Yeah, yeah.

00:19:29 Joe: And we both were into cars, we both were into a lot of the same things.  So we both played Xbox together, so we communicated on a different level. And in a female dominated community, it was nice to be able to connect with a male.

00:19:37 Chazmith: Yeah, yeah absolutely. That's the truth. So I'm so glad that even if the relationship in some aspects was difficult because you had to lean on your wife so much.  I feel like as I hear your story, I'm so glad that you had her because I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if you weren't blessed enough to have her by your side, because it can be such a lonely journey. And it sounded like she was somebody who was really able to support you through it, which is really awesome. And it sounds like, how are you guys now? Did this help make you stronger in the end? 

00:20:13 Joe: I'll be completely honest. I think that so often, and as people think, the grass is always greener on the other side. So when we lost everything, I was the primary breadwinner. I was an engineer, so I paid for the house, the cars. So when your house is foreclosed on, when your cars are taken away, I was too sick to work. There is a huge strain that's put on a relationship in that.        

00:20:31 Joe: And in the very beginning, she's a nurse, she's studying to be a nurse practitioner. So when she's told by doctor after doctor, hey, he's okay, this is in his head, they begin to believe it. So there was a lot of bitterness in that. And there was some times in the beginning that she wasn't there because she didn't understand I looked fine. The doctors were telling I'm fine, that I'm just anxious. So now they're trying to get me to go to these anxiety clinics and stuff like that, when I knew physically that there was something that was wrong with me. So it's definitely been a bumpy road, but I mean, we've been married for 22 years and we decided to ride it out. It's not been easy at all. There's definitely been moments, but yes, at the end when all said and done, she's still standing by my side and I am definitely grateful for that. So…

00:21:17 Chazmith: That's awesome. That's really beautiful. You kind of already briefed on this, but the next question I was going to ask you was about the four pillars that you guys are building your foundation on, because they are a little bit different than a lot of the programs out there, right? Because in my experience, a lot of these programs, they do focus on the neuroplasticity or some somatics bottom up, top down stuff. But what I don't see talked about as often is movement and nutrition especially, right? Like those things.   

00:21:46 Chazmith: I mean, personally, in some of the brain retraining, they actually teach you how to teach your body to eat everything. And I think that's great because we want that freedom to be able to eat anything we want when we want. But at the same time, choosing a nutrition on the grand scheme of things, your general nutrition, your overall input, I think really helps us on the healing journey and supports our body's capacity to level up and heal. So you said that you kind of saw a little bit about what was working in these groups, but beyond that, I'm curious. When you're trying to implement it into your own life and you're so exhausted, you said you could barely get off the couch or barely leave your house. How did you move through that into the capacity to know? Because a lot of people are like, I can't move. I'm in bed. I can't do anything. How did you get from A to B?       

00:22:41 Josh: So Joe coming down was a big thing. And this is where we talk about. This is what differentiates us between just the neuroplasticity programs and whatnot because I don't believe that that alone is enough to heal. 

00:22:54 Joe: Yeah, I second that too. 

00:22:56 Josh: Yeah, Joe coming down. And this is what we talk about, is community. Not a community where people type in occasionally, but no, like a radical community where we're literally pushing people to be uncomfortable. I didn't want to do a lot of the stuff that I did because I didn't feel great. But a lot of the times we don't feel great. When you haven't been moving for years and you've been on the couch for years, of course you're going to be weak. Of course you develop Pots, because guess what? Our bodies were intended to move. And without movement, we can't heal. Without nutrition, we can't heal. So I think encouraging people to go back to eating whatever it is, I will always eat a non inflammatory diet because at the end of the day, there is a chronic illness.        

00:23:33 Josh: So we have to be mindful of constantly healing, like healing journey in. This is something that's constant. And one of the things, one of my beefs with all these programs is it's all sunshine and rainbows, and it's not healing, is not sunshine and rainbows. It's not great. We have people in our classes that are crying because they're desperate to get better.  And they're like, I'm climbing the hill. I'm trying to get better. I'm eating and I'm not feeling better. And it's a process. And that's what we try to teach people, is it's not linear. It's different for everybody. I am so thankful to be getting my life back now. But I am also so angry at people that put like rainbows in the background and mountains and stuff like that and they make people think that it's going to be an easy journey to sell programs and it's not. It's so hard. And that's where we feel like stuff like diet and movement and all these things that are backed by science are so important in healing that if you're not doing it, I feel like you might be able to get a high off the neuroplasticity and change.   But the four pillars support the neuroplasticity is kind of how we look at it.

00:24:37 Joe: Yeah. And I want to add just the way we look at it is this has to be an entire lifestyle shift in order to heal and get better. And obviously I've gotten better in the past and relapse because while I looked at it as a lifestyle shift, I went back to unhealthy lifestyle behaviors that helped me relapse or made me get sicker again. And obviously it's a lesson I've learned and we want to teach people that. Kind of like you said, a lot of the programs, they don't talk about diet, they don't really talk a ton about movement. While they do have the somatic piece or whatever in my own healing in the past, I'm a big believer in an anti inflammatory diet. What you put in your body either helps or hinders your ability to heal. For a vast majority of people that are chronically ill, they will shift their diet because it's something that we can control, but a lot of people don't. And if you're feeding your body constant sugar inflammatory food, it's just going to be that much harder to heal.     

00:25:37 Joe: Now, I don't believe diet alone is ever going to heal you. Trust me. I've done diet by itself for many years and it did not heal me. But what it did was it helped with food allergies and gut sensitivities and things like that helped heal my gut, which then helped me to heal. And not only that, but the four pillars. Josh briefly mentioned it. He's talked to thousands of Lyme patients, probably more than most individual people, and we found a commonality of what got people bet well. And it was some type of neuroplasticity mindset shift, whether that's meditation, visualization what we're big in movement, exercise, movement, diet, nutrition, and then beginning to live as though you are healing. That is a part too, that facing fears, beginning to live as though you're healing. And that is our foundation of how I've healed in the past and how we're healing again, and how we're sharing, showing other people how to heal.    

00:26:40 Joe: So it comes from a lot of scientific stuff. We teach science, but mostly it comes from real world experience, our personal lived experience, other people's lived experience, what has helped them and just kind of implementing it. In the way we see and taking out all of the clutter and all of the complications. A lot of the other programs, while they're great and we believe in them, they're very complicated, they're very cumbersome. You have all these little things that you have to do throughout the day.  Healing doesn't have to be so complicated. And we hope to do that with the four pillars that we have is share that. It doesn't have to be so complicated. It does take in a complete lifestyle shift and some radical accountability and helping one another and that's where the community piece comes in. But it doesn't have to be this uncomfortable process of doing all of these little steps and watching hours and hours of videos before you ever get to healing. So that's kind of where Josh and I kind of came up with the four pillars and it's been effective for me and it's been effective for him and countless other–

00:27:53 Josh: People in the class. 

00:27:58 Chazmith: Yeah. So if you get somebody in your boot camp and you guys are kind of going through these four pillars, these four steps, learning how to really integrate them into someone's life, how do you approach a situation or how do you help, guide and support somebody who does have, let's say, extreme fatigue or exercise intolerance how do you help them to get back into doing exercise again when maybe every time they do, even the littlest bit, they have, like, a huge crash or a setback. And now top it off, they have a fear of it because every time they try to do it, it doesn't work.   

00:28:31 Josh: So this is where modification is very important. Unfortunately, a lot of, and by no means is anything we say considered to be medical advice. This is just strictly off our experience and just research that we've done and stuff and talking to a lot of doctors that are on the opposite, not moving is more deadly than anything anybody else can do. And we're not asking people to exercise like we're asking them literally to walk, which we're designed to do. And it's in the very beginning when, say, a person's been chronically sick for six years and the majority of their life is spent on the couch, they're going to feel really cruddy when they start to get up and walk. So we're saying, hey, if today your victory is you walk to the end of the street and you slap this stop sign and you got back, that's a victory. The goal is to walk a mile in the morning and a mile at night. And for a lot of people that sounds really daunting. And I remember being the dizzy lightheaded one. And we tell everybody, obviously consult your cardiologist.        

00:29:27 Josh: As long as he says your heart is strong enough, you're going to feel uncomfortable doing it. And that's one of the things that we prepare people for is get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable for a little bit. Healing doesn't feel great. So I was definitely the one that had the exercise and tolerance. But what happens when we get chronically sick is movement stops, and when the body is not moving, it cannot heal. You know we're not getting oxygen and nutrients to the brain, just blood's not flowing the way that is. We're more susceptible to clots. So I think people should be more scared with not moving than actually moving in itself. And that's what got me. I was one of those ones that was terrified. I was like, what if I pass out? Or what if I die? Or what if I exert my heart too much? As long as you've been seen by your doctor and he says, yes, you're okay to walk, which the large majority I would upwards of 98% are going to say that, then get up and walk and do it each time, do a little bit more. Do a little bit more. Set goals and push your fears aside. Because unfortunately, what happens, and I dealt with it before, is I had fears of walking too far because I thought that I would die. And I think that a lot of people with chronic illness and lyme feel that way because you're lightheaded, you're dizzy, you're wobbly, everything. But a lot of that, while it can come from lyme, is also from being stagnant for so long, your body's weak. And then as we move into yoga, we don't tell everybody, hey, look, you need to be doing headstands week one. Yeah. It's very difficult for you. Start with chair yoga. Sit in a chair and do postures that are movement. But ultimately healing comes.     

00:30:59 Josh: And there was a couple of studies that were done that were really crazy. That when we begin to build muscle, because when we're stagnant for so long and we have atrophy from not moving, yoga is the most gentle form of being able to build muscle without lifting weights. So I went from feeling like I was going to pass out and down dog because of POTS to now I do it twice a day. I love it, and I'm in the gym lifting weights. Now, I never, ever thought that I would get there, but it's not because of some medication that I took or anything like that.  It's because of that and everybody that I've met on this healing journey. These people leave the chronic illness communities because they're inundated with toxicity. So it's a process. And we teach people this. It's not like the end of month one, you're going to be in the gym pumping iron again.        

00:31:42 Josh: No. If you're able to complete that mile walk and you haven't been that's huge, that's a milestone. Write that down, celebrate it. We just don't want people to remain stagnant. We understand that in the very beginning that it's going to be difficult and that people have exercise intolerance.  But if you look at what most doctors say about exercise intolerance is large. As long as the cardiac system is completely intact and working as it should, there's no arrhythmias or anything like that. Your body needs to move. And we really preach that. And there's been times I've been walking with Joe in the beginning that I literally sat down on the sidewalk because I felt like I was going to pass out and it was a dysregulated nervous system. He dumped water on my head. I sat and I breathed for a little bit and I got up and I finished the walk. Now, we're not encouraging people to walk if they're passing out.

00:32:30 Joe: Yeah, yeah.

00:32:30 Josh: But a doctor should be able to tell you right away if you're fit to be able to walk around the block. And most people are. And what we encourage people to do is to continually build on that. Like if you want your health, this is a saying we use in a class often, and it came from Shawshank Redemption, get busy living or get busy dying. If you're laying on the couch, if you're laying in bed, you're dying, you're killing yourself. One of the quickest ways, even with elderly people, to watch people slowly fade away is for them not to move. So we believe it's that important. And we're very sympathetic of people that come in, but as long as they've been cleared by their doctors, we're definitely going to push them to move.  

00:33:09 Joe: Yeah, yeah.

00:33:10 Chazmith: I think it's so great that you guys had each other because this is a theme that shows up over and over and over in the podcast, right. You already said it the community. But even just having one buddy, so maybe just if there's that fear, there not going out for that walk by yourself, but having somebody there who can hold your hand literally, like, maybe metaphorically, but also literally, who can sit down with you and I think also help normalize remind you, like, yeah, it's okay. You're exhausted, you're tired. That's all okay, it's normal, you're good. Just rest until you feel better. Like I'm right here with you. So whether that's another person in the illness community or whether that's a friend or a loved one, I think that's a really good approach is just having somebody with you to support you. 

00:33:52 Josh: I agree, and that's what's the great part of the boot camp is. Everybody's paired up with a partner. So when you come into the 30 day boot camp, every single person gets an accountability partner. And the way that we say it is, it doesn't matter if you guys like each other, you're compatible. You guys are in a boat in the middle of the ocean and you're trying to literally get back to your health. You guys are going to paddle. So we have people that literally FaceTime each other when they're calling or when they're walking or they meditate together through FaceTime or they do that. That is the biggest part of it is having that accountability through a partner. And many of these people have become best friends. They fly across the country to meet each other. It's been amazing.

00:34:26 Chazmith: That's awesome. That's beautiful. Okay, just a total side note question, but about movement. Did both of you guys have a movement practice or like an exercise regime before you got sick? And was it always a part of your life, or was it more something that became a part of your life through this healing journey and learning the importance of it? 

00:34:45 Joe: For me, I got sick when I was 21. I was a very healthy, active individual. I was into skateboarding, snowboarding, all that, going to the gym multiple times a week. When I got sick, then I stopped moving completely. I was pretty much kind of like Josh agoraphobic. I barely left the house, didn't take many steps during the day. But I think what I mentioned earlier was in my story, I spent about four or five years trying all sorts of stuff, trying to get better, looking for answers outside of myself, looking for supplements, medicines, treatments, spending thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get well. And then there came that point when I got fed up. I got fed up with being sick and tired. And I spent the next year, however long it took for me to get better, and I started implementing exercise again. That was a big thing. That was like part of my healing, where it was like, again, I would get on a treadmill every day and walk. And then I started doing light weightlifting and then expanding on that a bit more, and then doing yoga and stretching poses and stuff like that. And then obviously when I got better, I was back to doing everything again. But the thing that I learned every time since I relapsed, since I got sick again, through external stressors and things like that, I learned to never stop moving, because that is so much worse than waiting around to get better until I felt better. So even when I relapsed in last year completely, and all of my symptoms kind of flared up, I did not stop moving.        

00:36:27 Joe: I stopped exercising and going to the gym. I still walked every day. I still kind of forced myself to do stretches and stuff like that. It was not sort of a program that I had, and I was not strict with it, with myself, especially because I was really sick. But at the very least, every single day, regardless of how I felt, I got up and I moved. So that was the one thing I just knew, like, I'm not going to stop that because it's a slippery slope. When you stop moving, then it becomes easier and easier to just fall into that victim mentality and lay on the couch and in bed. And then before you know it, months and years go by, and now all your muscles are atrophied and it's harder to get better. 

00:37:18 Chazmith: Yeah. The longer you go without it, the harder it is to get back into.   

00:37:21 Joe: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

00:37:25 Chazmith: Josh, how about you? Did you have a movement practice before you got sick as well, or was it more inspired through this journey? 

00:37:31 Josh: No, honestly, before I had gotten sick, I ran three to 4 miles a day. I played basketball in a men's league. Like, movement was a huge part. Joe and I were kind of adrenaline junkies. We raced. I mean, we lived very full lives before we got it wasn't I ate like garbage, but running was just my thing. I absolutely loved it. And then playing basketball, which is a huge part of my story, which is whole other part. Like, there's a huge viral part that includes talk shows, but that is in its nutshell. Not having that is part of the reason that it drew me down so deep is because I wasn't able to move and I shut down, so I stopped moving. So like Joe said, it was very hard for me when I did decide that I wanted to start moving, that I'd go out, and I was super skinny. I had no muscle on me whatsoever, and it was a process. I was the one that was going out, slapping the stop sign and walking back. I was in a wheelchair at one time. I had neuropathy for my waist down, and my son would push me around. So movement now I realize just how important it is to our overall health, not just in chronic illness, but in general.You see, people that move are the ones that tend to live a little bit longer.

00:38:49 Chazmith: Yeah. Okay, so thanks for answering that. Now I have another question about the nutrition aspect for people who come into your boot camp. So let's say we know what, like, a standard anti-inflammatory diet is, but let's say you have somebody who joins the group and they actually have a ton of food sensitivities, and they coincidentally happen to have sensitivities to what we know to be really healthy foods.  So they really struggle with eating nutritiously and getting nutrition into their system because of these sensitivities. Do you guys help guide them through graded exposure therapy? Or how do you support them to be able to increase their diversity in food intake so that they can get more nutrition into their body?

00:39:29 Joe:  So I'm a big proponent in nutrition, like we mentioned or whatever. So much so that while I was working, when I was healthy, I was working in advertising.  I went back and got my Master's in nutrition online because I just believe in diet to heal so many things. I mean, not just with chronic illness, the effect on that, but people that have diabetes, heart disease, all of this stuff, these chronic problems that a lot of people have in the world, that it's killing a lot of people. Diet is so huge in that so I went back to school for that. In our boot camps, we do give a guide for an anti-inflammatory diet. And we do have some people that come into our group with food sensitivities and mass cell issues and then also have all of these rules that they placed on themselves. And Josh has been one of those as well. So unfortunately, diet and what people eat is very affected when you get sick. Some people develop sensitivities, but the other thing that happens is a lot of people place and what we've seen with ourselves and with other people, a lot of people place limitations on themselves when they aren't having issues. And we see that with our group. They'll have maybe like a reaction to a food and then they'll start thinking that they're having a reaction to every single food out there because they fear that reaction.  So the one thing that we do is to one, Josh is allergic to peanuts. He's had that sort of situation. And a lot of what we try to stray away from is like gluten and know a lot of these inflammatory foods. So we teach that. But there is a lot of people that come in and that they're like, I can't eat this.        

00:41:21 Joe`: And we're like, hold up a second. This is where I'll do some one on one coaching with them and trying to really figure out what it is they're actually limited to eating. And then there is the possibility of doing exposure therapy to reintroduce some things because some people have these place, these ridiculous and absurd limitations on what they can eat. While some of them are valid, we find that a lot of them are not valid. They are fears that they have developed. And so the fears are some ways causing a reaction. There's a whole thing about we all know about the placebo effect, right? But there is also the opposite of it's called the nocebo effect. And it is when you believe that you are going to react to something, when you fear that reaction over and over again, you are more likely to have a reaction. So in our groups, we talk about rewiring and reprogramming our brain through visualization techniques, through things like that, to understand that food is not there to harm them.        

00:42:30 Joe: Because you had a reaction to X does not mean, one, that you will continue to have a reaction to it over and over again, but also, more specifically, doesn't mean you'll now have a reaction to this, this and this. Which is what we see a lot of people do is that they'll have a reaction to peanuts. But now they'll shy away from every single nut. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm taking a job with Josh because he did that he actually has an allergic reaction. Like he has an allergy to peanuts, which is sometimes a lot different than what we see. Some people will have mass cell response to certain foods. I've had them myself. But because of that they will then just want to avoid this, this and then they'll also just fear reactions to things which then more likely causes responses. So we work with people where they're at. We do get some people in our groups that are like I only eat three foods and these are them. 

00:43:37 Josh: Or they eat one specific type of ice cream and they're scared to eat everything else because they don't like literally we had a person eat nothing but ice cream because they were scared of reacting to everything else. They had one reaction that set the traumatic loop. 

00:43:49 Joe: Yeah. And we did get them on the right path and introduce more foods and they saw that as they were able to do that, that there wasn't a reaction and got them on the right path and things like that. So we work with individually, with people individually as well. In the boot camp setting, we do provide guides, a food list and sort of like a diet plan and just like recipes and then we just provide recommendations to books and things like that, if they need help getting started with that. But yeah, if people need more individualized sort of guidance, this is where Josh or I will do one on one throughout it as well, because that is needed for some people and with having a Master's in Nutrition able to help guide people in that area, as I mean.

00:44:40 Chazmith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  That's really important for me is just food, freedom, right? So I'm going to choose to eat foods that I know are going to support my system most of the time. But I want the freedom to know that I can say yes to anything I want, anytime I want it that choice, that ability to choose free of fear. And I think that sometimes we become so afraid of things because, like you said, maybe we had a reaction to one food and we go to a doctor's and unfortunately, there's a lot of stigmas around a lot of foods. Food groups that, yes, might not be the most ideal for an anti-inflammatory diet, but, like, a normal, healthy body with a good, healthy immune system should be able to tolerate any food in the right moderation. And so to be like, say I have a reaction to one thing, but then I go to this doctor and they're like, oh, well, that's like inflammatory and this is allergenic, and this is allergenic and you shouldn't eat this and you can't eat that. And then all of a sudden you're so afraid of gluten and you're afraid of dairy and you're afraid of nuts. And I think that sends us in a spiral.    

00:45:45 Chazmith: And that was my experience. I went through a period where I became very afraid of food because I labeled it and the stricter I actually got, the sicker I got. And so for me it was really learning how to release that label and release the fear and know, hey, I don't have to eat. Like, I don't buy bread on the regular, but if I go out to eat and it's a special occasion someday and I want a burger with the bun, I can do that, and I know my system is okay. So I think that's, like, a really big important factor is I think we learned fear from all these practitioners and doctors and quote unquote specialists that sometimes exasperate the fear within us.        

00:46:29 Joe: Can't do night shades. No high.

00:46:32 Chazmith:  Yeah. 

00:46:35 Josh: It sends a patient down a spiral. And what we realized is, as we try to do that, as your nervous system becomes regulated, as things calm down and you're not in a constant, your gut begins to heal, and you tolerate things a lot better. And that's one of the biggest pictures we see, is we see people thinking of someone specifically now that just went and had seafood this past weekend that they hadn't eaten it in six. It is there's so many different components to it, and we do put it as a pillar, but that's Joe's expertise. So if they're in the class and it's a complex case, it becomes more of an individual thing with him. And we kind of remove it from the bootcamp, but we give people kind of a guide to follow while they're through here. All right, here's anti-inflammatory, because we're trying to bring inflammation down, but once the inflammation is down, the freedom to eat stuff is there. I will always probably eat the way that I eat because it's just I want to eat healthy. I do want pizza so bad right now. Now you're saying I'm like, I want a burger, but I find alternatives. I am still working personally through food fears. I'll tell you one thing, and then I'm scared to death of almonds.        

00:47:42 Joe: Yeah, this is a very good story.

00:47:41 Josh: I had anaphylaxis to peanuts. And Joe's in the house, and our milk looks the same. I drink coconut milk. He drinks almond milk.  So I make a bowl of cereal, and in my mind, I've convinced myself that I will have anaphylaxic reaction to almonds. So I'm eating a bowl of cereal. I used his milk because they're the same color. Didn't even realize it. So I'm upstairs, I'm eating it. I don't even notice that I'm eating it. I'm sitting there, I put it down, and 10-15 minutes gone by if I was going to have a reaction, I would already have. He's like, Bro, you drank my milk. And in the moment that he told me that all the symptoms came, all the symptoms came, like, it started to feel like my throat was closing. I was getting hot and fluffed, and I'm, like, sitting here telling myself, what is going on? I would have already reacted. And yeah, I mean, it's a perfect example of that switch in our brain when we give ourselves too much information on it, like high histamine foods or whatnot. Then we become in a state of panic over fear and it's such a terrible place to be. It's such a limiting, limiting place to be.

00:48:47 Chazmith: Yeah, I've learned too so much how our perception, like we're talking about the perception of the food plays a role and then your emotional experience while you're eating it, right? Like if you eat something and you feel guilty about it, it's going to impact you different than if you eat it. And you're just really joyful and gracious and excited to be having it. I had a friend the other day literally just tell me a story and she doesn't even know anything about neuroplasticity, but she's like, yeah, generally if I eat any gluten at all, I get a wicked stomach ache and I have diarrhea and I'll puke and blah, blah, blah. And then she was talking about how one day though, she was at this Christmas party and there were these cookies that were a reminder of her childhood and her grandpa, and it was really nostalgic. And she was like, I don't even care if I have a reaction.    

00:49:26 Chazmith: Like, I know what I'm getting myself into. These are so nostalgic. And she was eating them and just thinking about all these beautiful childhood memories and really enjoying it. And she said she had no symptoms from it that day. 

00:49:41 Joe: That's amazing. It's so true that your brain influences the reactions that you can have. Kind of similar to that story is when I've gotten I do truly have a gluten intolerance and dairy intolerance. But when I've been well, I give myself the ability to eat those things. And when I'm well and I'm not fearing a reaction or whatever, I rarely have had a reaction to it. Now when I'm in a state of constant inflammation in my body and all of that sort of stuff is going on, I stray away from that because I don't want to add more inflammation to an already inflamed body.  But if your nervous system calms down and your body is healed, it's like you're more likely to be able to just handle those sort of things. And also just your brain has such influence over the reactions. And that's the one thing we talk to people about that have these food fears and that have this disordered eating is like, okay, we're big on visualization and meditation. Start visualizing yourself being able to eat these things without a reaction. Like, start visualizing yourself enjoying the food that are fearful of first before you even introduce it.        

00:51:12 Chazmith: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to ask you guys how you came up with the idea to do a 30 day boot camp, right? Because a lot of these programs are a lot longer than 30 days. And we know healing isn't complete after 30 days. But what made you guys decide, hey, we're going to approach this in this way, and we're going to do a 30 day boot camp? And then tell me after you tell me that, share with me what happens next. We know healing is not done at 30 days, so what happens after those 30 days is up. 

00:51:40 Josh: So it kind of came, honestly. We are big believers. We use visualization, but meditation is our primary tool. We're huge fans of Joe Dispenza, and just a lot of what we do is we require students to do meditation and use meditation and visualization twice. A we literally Joe and I would have these actual bean bag chairs that I have sitting here in our office. We would put them in a closet. And I have four kids, so it's absolutely bananas in my house all the time. And we would go into this closet, and my kids would sometimes understand that when daddy went in there, that it was time to meditate. So Joe and I would go in a closet and literally we would meditate. And it was part of our were we didn't realize it, but we were literally designing our routine for the class as we were trying to heal. We weren't following any program or anything like that. So we would go into the room and we would meditate.  And as we would like this is crazy. Things would come to us. Joe and I would have the same things come to us. Initially, it started as a food truck and then exploded into other things. But what we would start doing is writing stuff on the wall that would come to us in meditation.    

00:52:51 Josh: And one of them was a healing group. We wanted to, like I said, cultivate a group of people that wanted to heal. And the 30 days isn't you're going to get healed in 30 days? The 30 days is to give you a foundation in a very intense environment. Like, you'll read advertisements for some of these programs like, oh, you can do it in your spare time.  Healing is not a part time job. You cannot heal doing it part time. So you're in a boot camp setting where you're inundated and healing is in your face constantly for 30 days. I am getting up and making videos first thing in the mornings for class and then Joe's doing it the next day. And then we get on and we have our Zooms, and they get deep.  We are invading people's lives, like say, hey, look, why aren't you doing this? All right? And it's not for everybody. It is for the people that really want to buy into healing. And it becomes very difficult when you buy a box program or you get an app or something like that, and you're trying to get through it by yourself.        

00:53:46 Josh: And yes, it's self paced and it might take longer, but the. 30 days is enough to get people to change their habits, routines and rituals. And by the end of the 30 days, they have enough of a foundation to then begin living their life. And what we've seen is a large majority of the people that do our 30 day boot camps continue. We have people that have been on their 6th session now. So it's literally all about the community. It's not like anything changes from month one or month two. We don't have modules or anything like that. We don't complicate it. You come in here's, the rituals and routines that you guys need to change, healing now becomes your new obsession and we essentially put blinders on. And what we are focused on for that 30 days is your healing now. If you've got distractions in your life and you're not fully dedicated in believing that you can heal, it's not the class for you. But if you're coming up and this is what you essentially want to make your obsession for the next 30 days, it's going to work. If you do the work, it gives you just enough of a foundation. So what happens afterwards is we're hoping that we've given people a very cost effective way to be able to reframe their entire life.       

00:54:51 Joe: And from there, if they want to stay connected to the group, that's fantastic. We're all about that. They want to do another three, but our goal is to have them, in 30 days, have enough of a foundation to begin their healing journey. 

00:55:06 Chazmith: Do you guys have any kind of virtual community for people who are in the group to stay connected to one another together? 

00:55: 13 Joe: So I actually just want to talk about what Josh said real quick. There's science behind around 30 days where you build a routine and a new habit. That's why we started with the 30 days. But again, like he said, a lot of people continue because they see value in the community and all that sort of stuff. But to answer your question, we do. We have a private group and private chat that everyone that joins the 30 day boot camp.        

00:55:36 Joe: So they sign up for that. We have a private group, Facebook group private chat that we interact with daily on a daily basis. We upload new content, new videos in the group every day. And then the Facebook group private chat stays active all day, every day. People share victories, they share wins, they share kind of like what you were talking about before. Sometimes people, if they're going out and facing a new fear, whether that be movement related, whether that be, I'm going to go to the store, I haven't been out there, they can share that in the group and people can hold them accountable. And if they need that support, that people are there. Josh and I are there, but other people are there as well. And we're all in this together. That's the way we look at it as a supportive community where we're all in this together. And then not only that, like Josh mentioned earlier, we have everyone paired up with an accountability partner. So this is your lifeline for the 30 days you talk to that person on a daily basis. You check in, hey, did you get up? Did you do your gratitude? Did you do your meditation, visualization?      

00:56:42 Joe: How did it go? Did you move today? Did you kind of get out and try to live your life and face those fears? So we have these people that are checking on them. Not only that, we have our bi weekly Zoom call. So twice a week, we get on live Zoom calls with the entire group, and Josh and I will kind of lead the group, and then we share sort of education pieces. We share our own personal experiences with healing, but then we allow other people to speak, to share where they're at, share what their needs are in that moment. If they're struggling with something, speak up. How can we help you? How can the group support you if you've had a great win this week, something that you haven't done in a while because the group has helped you?         

00:57:30 Joe: Speak up and share that. That's kind of what it ends up being. And it ends up being an amazing interactive community where, truthfully, by the end of 30 days, people become great friends. It gets pretty personal, and a lot of people get to know one another. Josh and I have embarrassingly cried, shared some deep, vulnerable moments. So have other people in these private Zooms, because when people start seeing getting their lives back and start seeing that realness of getting your life back, it's amazing. It's a beautiful experience.  

00:58:06 Chazmith: That's awesome. And do you guys start a new one every month? 

00:58: 09 Joe: Yeah, we do.        

00:58:11 Chazmith: Okay, very cool, very cool. So I also saw on the website that on top of that, you had something that's coming soon, which is a self study option that looks like it's more of, like a year long self study, something that it looks to be very cost effective. So do you have any insights or anything you can share about that for people who are listening? 

00:58:33 Josh: Yeah, that's something that Joe and I had worked really hard on developing. And it was for people that I guess are more busy that they can't dedicate to a 30-day boot camp. But it's also a great complimentary tool to people that have done the boot camp, that want to have tangible material to be able to go through and walk through it's. Video Led. There's different sections and stuff like that, but we're very excited.

00:58:58 Chazmith: When do you expect that to launch? 

00:59:01 Joe: Hopefully soon. 

00:59:03 Chazmith: Okay. Like, soon as in one month, three months?

00:59:05 Joe:  Absolutely within three months, but hopefully more like one month. It's pretty much almost done. We're figuring out where we're going to host the information and the content for people right now. We want to find a way to make it cost effective and easy for people to access. We want to be able to use people to use it on a phone via the app version. So we're weighing out a lot of the options. We still have a little bit more content to create. And like Josh and I said, we are still healing in the process of healing. So everything that we do kind of goes at the pace of our healing. We've always talked about this know, everything that we do, the groups. If Josh and I don't heal and other people don't heal, it defeats the entire purpose. And Josh came from a culture in work where it was a very hustle, stress driven culture. We're done with that.        

01:00:05 Joe: You know, we're not going to overstress or overtax ourselves to get things done. While we would love to make a ton of money and make this huge business, make all of this money, we also realize nothing matters like money. Anything doesn't matter if we are not healthy. And so we focus on getting healthy first. And the business aspect of everything like that doesn't take place over what we're doing. So.

01:00:36 Chazmith: That makes sense. Okay, I want to ask well, there's two more questions, but one before the final question, which is just simply if there's anything that I haven't asked you about that you feel passionate about sharing, that you feel adds value for the people listening. 

01:00:51 Joe: Yeah. And the thing I will add to that and what Josh said is no one is too far gone to heal. Both Josh and I have been on death's know in terms of everything that's going on with our you know, you've heard Josh's story a little bit about him being paralyzed from the waist down. And both of us have dealt with all of the worst of the worst Lyme disease, chronic illness symptoms, and we have gotten our lives back and anyone, regardless of where they're at, on the healing journey. Again, if you just got sick with Lyme disease, if you relapse with Lyme or relapse with a chronic illness or you're struggling, this can help you. But also for people that are just needing a little support, we have people that come in our group in times with just like depression, anxiety, not that's anything that's a minor thing. It's a big, big thing. This type of stuff can help you as well.        

01:01:48 Joe: So we have people in our boot camps and that we help completely on the spectrum of chronic illness, those people that are the sickest of the sick and those people that are on the path to getting healthy. And regardless of where you are on that journey, you can get better. Regardless of how long you've been sick, you can get better and you can heal. So I just want to reiterate that with people that feel hopeless, that feel like I'm just too far gone, both Josh and I have been there, and we have gotten our lives back. So anyone that's listening and struggling, just know that hang in there. Do not give up. You can get your life back, and you can live a full and healthy complete life, regardless of where you're at. 

01:02:32 Chazmith: Love it. Thank you. Okay, my final question that I ask everybody is if you could only share one message with the world for the rest of your life, what message would you want to share with the world? And I do like to preface that. It does not have to be at all related to chronic illness or healing or anything. It's just one message that you were going to spend the rest of your life sharing. 

01:02:50 Joe: We are all far more capable than we realize. And the thing that both Josh and I have realized throughout this journey and when I've gotten sick and relapsed in the past and I even wrote this in my book, it was a big message regardless of how sick you are or how sick you have been, you are far more capable to do things than you realize. The human body is such a resilient machine that has capabilities of healing, but also, however sick you are, sometimes we place these limitations, self imposed limitations on ourselves because we're sick and all this stuff. But as we get out of that and we begin to, like Josh said, live fearlessly and begin to choose to pursue our dreams and things like that, you'll realize how capable you are. 

01:03:46 Chazmith: Thank you. Well said. All right, you guys. So I'm going to include in the show notes any of the ways to connect with you that are ideal for everyone listening if they want to learn more about your Boot camp or just reach out to one of you guys. I'll have all that in the Show Notes for everyone tuned in, and I just wanted to say thanks for being here. It was fun to personally get to know you both a little bit better and hear your stories and see where you've come and what you're turning this really tough journey into. So thank you so much for taking your time with me today to share a little bit about yourselves with everyone that would be listening. 

01:04:22 Joe: Thank you. Yeah, thanks so much for having us. It's been awesome, friends. 

1:04:26 Chazmith: Thanks. That is all for today. My hope for every episode is that you found some source of inspiration, insight, or support that you need to help you on this journey that you are embarking on. Don't forget that you can win one free month of the Healing Dudes Boot Camp by following the three options that were provided in the beginning of the episode.        

01:04:44 Chazmith: You will also find details in the show notes as well as the 10% discount code. This week, I would like to encourage an impromptu challenge to you. Go to my blog page on my website, www.ourpoweriswithin.com, and read my most recent blog about memorable moments and then write five of your own most memorable moments, either in the comments section or if you don't prefer it to be public, you can privately DM me, email me, or even drop me a voice memo. I really look forward to reading your shares. And until next time, make this week great.